Legislature(2003 - 2004)

10/29/2003 01:35 PM House BUD

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
        JOINT COMMITTEE ON LEGISLATIVE BUDGET AND AUDIT                                                                       
                        October 29, 2003                                                                                        
                           1:35 p.m.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Ralph Samuels, Chair                                                                                             
Representative Mike Hawker                                                                                                      
Representative Vic Kohring (via teleconference)                                                                                 
Representative Reggie Joule, alternate                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Senator Gene Therriault, Vice Chair (via teleconference)                                                                        
Senator Ben Stevens                                                                                                             
Senator Con Bunde                                                                                                               
Senator Lyman Hoffman                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
OTHER LEGISLATORS PRESENT                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Senator Jim Elkins (Appointee - Designee) (via teleconference)                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative Beth Kerttula                                                                                                    
Representative Bill Williams, alternate                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Senator Gary Wilken                                                                                                             
Senator Lyda Green, alternate                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
APPROVAL OF MINUTES                                                                                                             
REVISED PROGRAM - LEGISLATIVE (RPLs)                                                                                            
EXECUTIVE SESSION                                                                                                               
AUDIT REQUESTS                                                                                                                  
OTHER COMMITTEE BUSINESS                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CHERYL FRASCA, Director                                                                                                         
Office of Management & Budget (OMB)                                                                                             
Office of the Governor                                                                                                          
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Presented all the RPLs to the Joint                                                                        
Committee on Legislative Budget and Audit.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
STEVEN B. PORTER, Deputy Commissioner                                                                                           
Office of the Commissioner                                                                                                      
Department of Revenue                                                                                                           
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Answered questions pertaining to RPL 04-4-                                                                 
1026.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
KATHLEEN WAYNE, School Food Coordinator                                                                                         
Teaching and Learning Support                                                                                                   
Department of Education and Early Development (EED)                                                                             
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Answered questions pertaining to RPL [05]-                                                                 
4-0685.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER, Hydrologist                                                                                               
Division of Mining, Land and Water                                                                                              
Department of Natural Resources                                                                                                 
POSITION STATEMENT:  Answered questions pertaining to RPL 10-4-                                                                 
5035.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
KIP KNUDSON, Deputy Commissioner of Aviation                                                                                    
Office of the Commissioner                                                                                                      
Department of Transportation & Public Facilities                                                                                
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT:  Answered questions pertaining to RPL 25-4-                                                                 
0046.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
DAVID TEAL, Legislative Fiscal Analyst                                                                                          
Legislative Finance Division                                                                                                    
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Answered questions pertaining to RPL 04-4-                                                                 
0127.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
TINA CUNNING                                                                                                                    
State-Federal Issues Program Manager                                                                                            
Office of the Commissioner                                                                                                      
Alaska Department of Fish & Game (ADF&G)                                                                                        
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT:  Answered questions pertaining to navigable                                                                 
waters and RS 2477s.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
DENNIS DeWITT, Special Staff Assistant                                                                                          
Office of the Governor                                                                                                          
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Discussed the proposal to convert the                                                                      
Palmer Pioneers' Home to a veterans' home.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 03-8, SIDE A                                                                                                             
Number 0001                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  RALPH SAMUELS  called the  Joint Committee  on Legislative                                                             
Budget and Audit  meeting to order at 1:35  p.m.  Representatives                                                               
Samuels,  Hawker, Kohring  (via  teleconference),  and Joule  and                                                               
Senators  Therriault (via  teleconference),  Stevens, Bunde,  and                                                               
Hoffman  were  present at  the  call  to order.    Representative                                                               
Berkowitz,   Senator    Olson,   and   Appointee    Elkins   (via                                                               
teleconference) were also in attendance.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
APPROVAL OF MINUTES                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Number 0115                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                              
REPRESENTATIVE HAWKER  made a  motion to  approve the  minutes of                                                               
August 26, 2003.  There being  no objection, the minutes from the                                                               
meeting of August 26, 2003, were approved as read.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REVISED PROGRAM - LEGISLATIVE (RPLs)                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SAMUELS  announced that he  would like  to make the  RPLs a                                                               
consent agenda in the interest of time.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 0121                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  HAWKER  moved  that  the  committee  approve  the                                                               
following RPLs:   02-4-0022; [03]-4-0139; 04-4-[1026]; 04-4-0127;                                                               
[05]-4-0685; 05-4-0703; 06-4-0161;  06-4-0166; [08-4-0076]; 08-4-                                                               
0078; 10-4-5035; 12-4-0114; 20-4-0045; 20-4-0046; and 25-4-6715.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CHERYL  FRASCA, Director,  Office of  Management &  Budget (OMB),                                                               
Office  of  the Governor,  explained  that  several of  the  RPLs                                                               
before the  committee relate to  decisions that were made  at the                                                               
time the budget  was being reviewed for the veto  process.  After                                                               
the  legislature adjourned,  the [Governor's  Office] learned  of                                                               
the  availability   of  federal   funds.    Therefore,   in  some                                                               
instances, for one-time projects,  the governor made the decision                                                               
to veto the  state funds so that the federal  funds could be used                                                               
instead.   In this case,  the appropriation to the  Department of                                                               
Administration  for  the  Alaska Public  Offices  Commission  for                                                               
electronic  filings of  various reports  was vetoed  so that  the                                                               
federal funds could be used to complete the project.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HAWKER inquired as to  the source of these federal                                                               
funds and whether these are restricted federal funds.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MS. FRASCA  informed the committee  that these are  federal funds                                                               
that Congress  approved for  fiscal relief for  the states.   The                                                               
first $25 million  was received in July and a  second $25 million                                                               
will be  received in  October.  She  informed the  committee that                                                               
the proposals  in the [committee]  packet total  approximately $7                                                               
million and there is a balance  of about $18 million for which no                                                               
decision has been  made with regard to how those  funds should be                                                               
used.   These federal  funds are unrestricted  in the  sense that                                                               
they can be  available for any traditional public  purpose in the                                                               
budget.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 0179                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS.   FRASCA   turned   to  RPL   [03]-4-0139,   which   provides                                                               
approximately $259,000  for victim advocacy and  $254,000 for two                                                               
special prosecutors  in the Criminal  Division of  the Department                                                               
of  Law.   The source  of  this money  is the  same federal  fund                                                               
source described earlier.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HAWKER  asked if  the two special  prosecutors are                                                               
temporary  [positions] or  will these  become a  recurring budget                                                               
item.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MS.  FRASCA said  that the  [federal] funds  are temporary.   The                                                               
outcome of applications for a  number of federal grants should be                                                               
known in  the next month or  so.  The aforementioned  will answer                                                               
the question  of whether  other federal  funds will  be available                                                               
otherwise the Department of Law  is evaluating [these two special                                                               
prosecutors] in the context of  its fiscal year (FY) 2005 budget.                                                               
The  Fairbanks [special]  prosecutor  is  important because  it's                                                               
dealing with domestic violence and  sexual assault cases and thus                                                               
the need  will continue.   However, the  department will  have to                                                               
evaluate  how  to fund  it  in  FY05.    In further  response  to                                                               
Representative Hawker, Ms. Frasca  explained that the purpose for                                                               
which the federal funds for  victim advocacy will likely continue                                                               
in the future.  Again, the  department will have to evaluate that                                                               
in context of  the FY05 budget.  The  legislature transferred the                                                               
grant monies to  the Department of Law and  the department viewed                                                               
the  grant monies  as  a  way to  handle  a $700,000  unallocated                                                               
reduction.   However, that was determined  not to be a  "good way                                                               
to go."                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  HOFFMAN asked  if the  two positions  have already  been                                                               
filled.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MS. FRASCA replied yes.   In further response to Senator Hoffman,                                                               
Ms.  Frasca informed  the committee  that  a typical  cost for  a                                                               
prosecutor is about $114,000,  which includes benefits, salaries,                                                               
and associated costs.  She  offered to provide the committee with                                                               
a detailed breakdown later.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Number 0213                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. FRASCA  continued with  RPL 04-4-[1026],  which is  a request                                                               
for  $750,000 in  statutory  designated  program receipts  (SDPR)                                                               
related to  the Stranded  Gas Development  Act.   This RPL  is in                                                               
anticipation of  a potential  application being  filed by  one of                                                               
the three  major sponsors for  a potential gas line.   Currently,                                                               
there  is $750,000  in authority,  but should  an application  be                                                               
received  the  law  allows  up   to  $1.5  million  in  statutory                                                               
designated   receipts  to   do  the   work  associated   with  an                                                               
application under  the Stranded Gas Development  Act.  Therefore,                                                               
the [Department  of Revenue] wants  to be prepared to  proceed if                                                               
an application is submitted.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  BEN   STEVENS  asked  if  there   is  any  documentation                                                               
regarding how much  [the Department of Revenue] has  spent of the                                                               
FY04 appropriation.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MS.  FRASCA  deferred  to  Steven  Porter,  Deputy  Commissioner,                                                               
Department of Revenue.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR BEN STEVENS related his  understanding that the limit for                                                               
SDPRs  was raised  to $1.5  [million] and  $750,000 for  FY04 was                                                               
approved.    Therefore,  he  surmised  that  [RPL  04-4-1026]  is                                                               
forward funding FY05 into FY04.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MS. FRASCA  agreed that it could  be interpreted as such,  but if                                                               
[the  department] receives  an application  in FY04  $1.5 million                                                               
can be  spent in FY04.   Therefore, it would provide  the ability                                                               
to receive  the money from the  applicant and expend it  in FY04.                                                               
If  the  application  doesn't   come  forward,  [the  department]                                                               
wouldn't spend the money because it wasn't paid.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  BEN STEVENS  pointed  out  that the  language  in HB  16                                                               
specifies that  when there  is a  limit in  SDPRs, the  state may                                                               
require  reimbursable   expenses  from  the   project  applicant.                                                               
Therefore, he  inquired as to  where those  reimbursable expenses                                                               
go.   Senator Ben Stevens  acknowledged that the  applicant would                                                               
reimburse   the  state   for   the  expense   of  analyzing   the                                                               
application.    He  inquired  as  to  what  would  happen  if  no                                                               
application comes  forward until  May 2004  and thus  there would                                                               
only be a month left to spend the $1.5 million.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Number 0259                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
STEVEN   B.   PORTER,   Deputy  Commissioner,   Office   of   the                                                               
Commissioner,  Department of  Revenue, explained  that these  are                                                               
SDPRs, and therefore the money will  come in from a third source.                                                               
In essence, the third source is  the major oil companies.  From a                                                               
practical standpoint,  when an application is  submitted separate                                                               
negotiations - a  reimbursement agreement - will occur.   The oil                                                               
companies  may agree  to  pay up  to $1.5  million.   Mr.  Porter                                                               
pointed  out  that  the  oil  companies view  this  as  a  single                                                               
negotiation not  as a FY04  or FY05  [negotiation].  Much  of the                                                               
information and  research necessary to negotiate  a contract will                                                               
be needed  in the  first four  to five  months.   Therefore, [the                                                               
department] may contract for research  services to help negotiate                                                               
the  contract.   Mr. Porter  said  that Senator  Ben Stevens  was                                                               
correct  that if  an application  isn't received  until May,  the                                                               
$1.5 million won't be spent by the end of the year.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MS. FRASCA,  in response to  Senator Ben Stevens,  confirmed that                                                               
the authority  to receive and  spend [the SDPRs] would  lapse and                                                               
would have to be reauthorized in FY05.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SAMUELS interjected  that one way or  another the authority                                                               
would lapse.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR BEN STEVENS posed a  situation in which FY04 is increased                                                               
to $1.5  million and asked,  "What's going  to say that  we don't                                                               
come  in for  FY05,  in  the regular  operating  budget, to  have                                                               
another $750[,000] in  authority or even another  $1.5 million in                                                               
authority?"   The  aforementioned situation  could result  in the                                                               
potential of $3 million in authorization for no projects.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR.  PORTER pointed  out that  the Stranded  Gas Development  Act                                                               
authorizes $1.5 million  in SDPRs per applicant,  which means the                                                               
money never comes from the  state.  He explained that contractors                                                               
will bill  [the department]  who will  send the  bill to  the oil                                                               
industry which will  then send a check to the  state.  Therefore,                                                               
there will never  been any real dollars that the  state will have                                                               
to allocate.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 0294                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR HOFFMAN pointed out that  in the Stranded Gas Development                                                               
Act there was an anticipated $750,000  in FY05.  He asked if this                                                               
[RPL] would  mean that the [need  for $750,000 in FY05]  would no                                                               
longer be required.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. PORTER  said that one  must view this  in context of  the oil                                                               
industry, which is  willing to negotiate up to  $1.5 million; the                                                               
oil  industry doesn't  view it  in the  context of  fiscal years.                                                               
Therefore, if the entire $1.5 million  is spent there would be no                                                               
requirement in  the next  year.  In  further response  to Senator                                                               
Hoffman, Mr. Porter  explained that if the  contract is completed                                                               
and a  contract is submitted in  FY04, then the project  would be                                                               
complete and the funds, totaling  $876,500, wouldn't be necessary                                                               
in  FY05.   He  related  his  assumption  that portions  of  this                                                               
contract  would  move  on  into FY05  and  the  department  would                                                               
continue to work on it.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HAWKER inquired  as to what has  changed since the                                                               
issuance of  the fiscal  note which  initially broke  the program                                                               
receipts into two  fiscal years rather than placing  those all in                                                               
the first year as it does now.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. PORTER  explained that  when the  fiscal note  was originally                                                               
drafted,  the department  contemplated drafting  an agreement  in                                                               
principle  with subsequent  negotiations for  additional contract                                                               
terms.    After  talking  with  the oil  and  gas  industry,  the                                                               
discussion moved  to a  single contract and  thus it  changed the                                                               
way  in  which the  state  negotiates  and  the amount  of  money                                                               
necessary at the  beginning of the process as well  as the timing                                                               
of the consultants.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  HAWKER surmised  then  that the  position of  the                                                               
administration  and  the  Department  of  Revenue  is  that  this                                                               
program   receipt  authority   doesn't  come   with  a   spending                                                               
commitment  unless the  receipts  are received.   Therefore,  the                                                               
department has  greater latitude  in negotiating any  contract or                                                               
responding to any proposal that might come forward.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. PORTER replied yes.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 0333                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. FRASCA moved on to RPL  04-40127, which is a $200,000 request                                                               
for  the  Alaska Natural  Gas  Development  Authority (ANGDA)  to                                                               
continue its  work in  developing a work  plan and  analyzing the                                                               
in-state benefits of  a gas project.  These are  the same federal                                                               
funds  that were  described  earlier.   Ms.  Frasca informed  the                                                               
committee that  there is an  amendment to increase the  amount to                                                               
$250,000 and  the additional $50,000  would go to  the Department                                                               
of Natural Resources to support its work with ANGDA.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  THERRIAULT  informed  the  committee that  he  has  been                                                               
involved in  the development of  this RPL and thus  he encouraged                                                               
the committee  to view  it favorably.   He  noted that  the ANGDA                                                               
board has  related that  it would  like to  proceed with  the in-                                                               
state use  benefits analysis,  which he  believes will  be useful                                                               
information for  the legislation in  regard to the  evaluation of                                                               
any  project  that  proposes to  monetize  Alaska's  natural  gas                                                               
resource.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SAMUELS  announced that  RPL 04-40127  will be  pulled from                                                               
the  consent agenda  in light  of the  request for  an amendment,                                                               
which will require a separate vote.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Number 0373                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. FRASCA turned to RPL [05]-4-0685,  which is a request for the                                                               
Department  of  Education &  Early  Development  to increase  its                                                               
authority  to  receive  $3.5  million  for  the  child  nutrition                                                               
program.    In  the  past,   this  program  was  located  in  the                                                               
Department  of Education  along  with the  childcare program  and                                                               
this  program  was able  to  use  the  federal authority  of  the                                                               
childcare programs to  cover the level of funding  that they have                                                               
been spending  each year.   Towards  the end  of the  last fiscal                                                               
year the  childcare programs  moved to  the Department  of Health                                                               
and   Social  Services   as  well   as  its   federal  authority.                                                               
Therefore,   this   program   didn't  have   sufficient   federal                                                               
authorization  to receive  the level  of funding  that the  child                                                               
nutrition program needed.   Now that the  aforementioned has been                                                               
realized, it will be reflected  appropriately in the FY05 budget.                                                               
Ms.  Frasca  informed  the committee  that  the  child  nutrition                                                               
program has been growing about 2 percent each year.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR BUNDE inquired  as to how this would be  allocated to the                                                               
various school districts.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS.  FRASCA related  that  the amount  is  allocated by  eligible                                                               
children  within  a  school  district,  a  childcare  center,  or                                                               
nonprofit organizations.   Therefore, there is no list  as to how                                                               
this $3.5 million will be allocated to all the schools.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR BUNDE  pointed out that the  community of Hope is  in the                                                               
Kenai School  District and many  children in Hope  have expressed                                                               
the desire  to have a  hot lunch.   Therefore, he inquired  as to                                                               
the chance that  some of this money would go  to the Kenai School                                                               
District.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
KATHLEEN WAYNE,  School Food  Coordinator, Teaching  and Learning                                                               
Support,  Department of  Education and  Early Development  (EED),                                                               
said  that  she is  familiar  with  the  Hope school  wanting  to                                                               
participate  in the  district's  national  school lunch  program.                                                               
She  emphasized   that  it  would  be   the  district's  decision                                                               
regarding  whether that  school will  participate in  the federal                                                               
[hot lunch] program.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR BUNDE  asked if the  Kenai School District  would receive                                                               
funds so  that the Hope school  could talk to the  district about                                                               
this.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MS. WAYNE  explained that these  are entitlement funds  for which                                                               
there  is no  cap and  thus  the department  reimburses from  the                                                               
previous   number  of   meals   served   to  eligible   children.                                                               
Therefore, if  the district decides  to allow the Hope  school to                                                               
participate in  this program, the department  would reimburse the                                                               
school district for the meals it served.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Number 0420                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  HAWKER  inquired  as  to  the  criteria  used  to                                                               
determine an eligible child.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  WAYNE   answered  that  the   criteria  is   federal  income                                                               
application information.  In Alaska,  [a qualifying income] would                                                               
be 185  percent of the poverty  level.  Households would  have to                                                               
apply  through   the  school   district,  which   determines  the                                                               
eligibility.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR BEN  STEVENS turned to  the fiscal analysis  and surmised                                                               
that  [the legislature]  is creating  authority  to receive  $3.5                                                               
million in  a new department,  which he  assumed would be  in the                                                               
Department of  Health and Social  Services.  However,  he pointed                                                               
out that  he didn't see a  reduction in the receipt  authority in                                                               
EED, which is the department from which the program has left.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS. FRASCA  explained that  the [administration]  hasn't proposed                                                               
to reduce the  federal authority in the Department  of Health and                                                               
Social Services, although  she offered to analyze it  in order to                                                               
determine whether  the Department  of Health and  Social Services                                                               
had excess  authority from  the child  nutrition program  that it                                                               
previously managed.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR BEN  STEVENS requested seeing that  transfer of authority                                                               
and the impact of the shifting.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Number 0469                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. FRASCA  continued with RPL  05-4-0703, which is a  request to                                                               
expend  $1,653,000 of  the  one-time federal  funds  in order  to                                                               
begin improvements at  Mount Edgecumbe High School.   The goal is                                                               
to  increase  the  number  of  students  that  can  attend  Mount                                                               
Edgecumbe  High School.   This  is  viewed as  an opportunity  to                                                               
provide  more  educational   opportunities  at  Mount  Edgecumbe,                                                               
especially in light  of the No Child Left Behind  Act.  She noted                                                               
that  the desire  is  to build  upon a  facility  that has  shown                                                               
success.  This funding would provide  65-80 more beds in the dorm                                                               
and five  to six new  classrooms.  In response  to Representative                                                               
Joule,  Ms. Frasca  related  her belief  that  such action  would                                                               
bring Mt.  Edgecumbe's enrollment  to over 400.   She  noted that                                                               
currently, Mt. Edgecumbe is only able  to accept one of every two                                                               
applications received.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR THERRIAULT  referred to the legislative  fiscal analyst's                                                               
comments that  specify that the  governor originally  reduced the                                                               
request amount to $1 million  and the legislature further reduced                                                               
it  to $.5  million.   He  inquired  as to  the  dynamic of  that                                                               
further  reduction by  the legislature.    Was it  caused by  the                                                               
drive to reduce the overall general fund expenditures, he asked.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MS. FRASCA  said she would  yield to the legislature  with regard                                                               
to why it reduced one of  the governor's appropriations.  In this                                                               
case,  there is  access  to federal  funds  whereas before  state                                                               
funds were  being requested.   She noted that the  department has                                                               
requested funding for classrooms  and renovations, although those                                                               
requests  haven't  always  been  passed on  to  the  legislature.                                                               
Therefore,  there   is  demand  with  regard   to  balancing  the                                                               
priorities the legislature had at the end of session.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  THERRIAULT  expressed  the   need  to  be  careful  when                                                               
reversing a decision made by the full legislature.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MS. FRASCA  interjected that there has  been deferred maintenance                                                               
needs and some  of the funding requested has been  used for that,                                                               
although  the requests  haven't  been as  much  as is  necessary.                                                               
Therefore, any increment would be a "good thing."                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  HOFFMAN commented  that he  didn't believe  [approval of                                                               
this  RPL] would  reverse the  action because  it's looking  at a                                                               
different revenue source.  He  recalled that the original request                                                               
was  for general  funds  while this  requests  using federal  tax                                                               
relief funds.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR BEN  STEVENS surmised  that this  RPL would  use $500,000                                                               
from  the Alaska  Student Loan  Corporation  dividend plus  $1.65                                                               
million  from  the new  federal  fund.   Therefore,  the  project                                                               
totals about $2.1 million.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS. FRASCA  clarified that the  $500,000 from the  Alaska Student                                                               
Loan  Corporation was  already  appropriated  this last  session.                                                               
The total project would require about another $6 million.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 0570                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HAWKER said  that he isn't familiar  with the six-                                                               
year master plan  for Mt. Edgecumbe.  He inquired  as to how this                                                               
plan fits  into the  overall issue  of dealing  with the  cost of                                                               
education delivery in rural Alaska.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MS.  FRASCA  deferred to  the  Department  of Education  &  Early                                                               
Development, but offered to provide  Representative Hawker with a                                                               
copy of Mt. Edgecumbe's six-year plan.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  HAWKER   inquired  as  to  the   consequences  of                                                               
deferring action on this RPL.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS.  FRASCA answered  that she  believes it  would be  okay given                                                               
that she  understands there  will be  a meeting  in mid-December.                                                               
However, the  governor wanted  Mt. Edgecumbe to  be open  for new                                                               
students next fall.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  SAMUELS asked  if the  money  requested in  the RPL  would                                                               
result in an  increase in potential enrollment  at Mt. Edgecumbe.                                                               
He  specifically asked  how  much money  is  necessary to  finish                                                               
classrooms and dormitories.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. FRASCA replied  that it would require  the additional monies.                                                               
This   request  is   really  for   planning,  design,   and  some                                                               
renovations.  The expansion will require the additional funds.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   HAWKER  echoed   Senator  Therriault's   earlier                                                               
concern with regard  to this action overriding  decisions made by                                                               
the larger body.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Number 0625                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR HOFFMAN pointed  out that this committee  has the ability                                                               
to take action  on behalf of the legislature  during the interim.                                                               
The above concern could be said of  any of the RPLs, all of which                                                               
could  be tabled  and dealt  with by  the full  legislature.   In                                                               
defense of  this appropriation, Senator Hoffman  remarked that it                                                               
is significant  in regard  to its  impact on  additional students                                                               
entering the Mt. Edgecumbe School,  which is a successful program                                                               
for Alaska Native children.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR THERRIAULT  commented that he merely  wants the committee                                                               
to know that  it might reverse the  legislature's earlier action.                                                               
Senator Therriault  related his  understanding that  this funding                                                               
request  would address  the deferred  maintenance.   He asked  if                                                               
this funding request would start this next capital expansion.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS.   FRASCA  clarified   that  about   $675,000  would   be  for                                                               
renovations.  The balance of  the money is primarily for planning                                                               
and  design  of  the  additional dorm  renovation  and  classroom                                                               
expansion.    Although  waiting until  the  December  meeting  to                                                               
approve this RPL  would be okay, it would be  unfortunate if [the                                                               
December meeting]  is delayed [until] the  legislative session in                                                               
which case  the RPL would  be a  capital budget process  and thus                                                               
not [completed] until May.   In the aforementioned scenario, much                                                               
time  is lost  in realizing  the ultimate  goal of  expanding the                                                               
facility.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  THERRIAULT turned  to the  legislative fiscal  analyst's                                                               
comment  which says,  "The remaining  $978,000 requested  in this                                                               
RPL  will fund  renovation  and classroom  expansion of  Building                                                               
297."  He specified that he  didn't want to create a situation in                                                               
which the  footings are poured  and rebar  is in and  the project                                                               
stops.   Therefore, he asked if  this RPL would just  move to the                                                               
design of the new part.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MS.  FRASCA  explained  that  the  new part  would  be  only  the                                                               
planning and design related to the classroom expansion.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 0693                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JOULE agreed  that  reviewing  the six-year  plan                                                               
would be  helpful, as  would actually  going to  the school.   He                                                               
suggested having the  next meeting there.  He  expressed his hope                                                               
that the committee would approve this RPL.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  HAWKER  commented  that he  anticipates  entering                                                               
next  session with  a  preliminary budget  deficit  in excess  of                                                               
about  $600 million.   This  RPL seems  to be  the first  step in                                                               
spending about $8 million and  he noted his hesitation in second-                                                               
guessing the  education budget subcommittees of  both bodies that                                                               
had concurred with a slowing of this project.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOULE said that he  didn't believe that the budget                                                               
subcommittees  take up  capital issues.   Since  this issue  is a                                                               
capital issue, he  said he didn't believe  the subcommittees even                                                               
had that discussion.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 03-8, SIDE B                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MS.  FRASCA moved  on  to [RPL  06-4-0161],  which would  provide                                                               
funds  to  the  Department  of Health  and  Social  Services  for                                                               
programs  for  co-occurring  disorders.     This  [funding]  will                                                               
provide [services]  over five  years and  no state  general funds                                                               
are required.   An additional  $825,000 will be requested  in the                                                               
FY05 budget as a result of this grant.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 0765                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. FRASCA continued  with RPL 06-6-0166, which is  a request for                                                               
$110,000 of  the one-time  federal fiscal  relief dollars.   This                                                               
RPL is  related to  a project  that was  included in  the capital                                                               
budget and  was approved  by the legislature.   Through  the veto                                                               
process, the  funding was  deleted so that  the state  could save                                                               
its dollars  and, instead,  use the federal  funds to  repair the                                                               
Fairbanks Public Health Center.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MS. FRASCA  explained that  RPL 08-4-0076 is  a request  for $2.9                                                               
million  of an  additional distribution  of the  one-time federal                                                               
fiscal  relief  dollars.     This  funding  would   go  to  small                                                               
municipalities so that  each would receive a  minimum of $40,000,                                                               
which  would help  transition with  the veto  of the  monies with                                                               
which  the state  shares with  local  governments throughout  the                                                               
state.  The communities are listed in the attachment.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MS. FRASCA turned  to RPL 08-4-0078, which is a  request for $5.2                                                               
million in federal  dollars that are received  through the Denali                                                               
Commission.     This  funding  would  provide   grants  to  eight                                                               
communities  for multi-use  facilities.   The state  has received                                                               
authority  in  this  fiscal  year for  almost  $2.5  million  for                                                               
similar  facilities in  three communities.   Therefore,  this RPL                                                               
will allow the  funds to be passed through  the Denali Commission                                                               
to the communities listed.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 0791                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. FRASCA  addressed RPL 10-4-5035,  which is a request  for the                                                               
Department of  Natural Resources to receive  $45,000 in statutory                                                               
designated program  receipts from the Tuluksak  Native Community.                                                               
This will fund river stream gaging.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR BUNDE  surmised that  this RPL is  in regard  to concerns                                                               
about floods.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER,  Hydrologist, Division of Mining,  Land and                                                               
Water, Department  of Natural Resources, clarified  that this RPL                                                               
isn't   concerning  floods   rather  it's   for  base-line   data                                                               
collection.   The  [Tuluksak Native  Community] is  working on  a                                                               
water and  sewer project  as well as  further development  of the                                                               
village.  There has been little  stream gaging at the location of                                                               
the community.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MS. FRASCA  moved on  to RPL 12-4-0114,  which requests  a little                                                               
over $1 million for the Department  of Public Safety.  Again, the                                                               
source  of these  funds are  the one-time  federal fiscal  relief                                                               
dollars.   Furthermore,  this  is another  example  in which  the                                                               
governor vetoed funds in order to  save state funds so that these                                                               
federal funds could  be used.  These funds would  repair the roof                                                               
of  the  Department of  Public  Safety's  building in  Fairbanks.                                                               
This is another deferred maintenance project.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR HOFFMAN  inquired as to  [the total amount used  of these                                                               
one-time federal  fiscal relief dollars]  in terms of  these RPLs                                                               
and previous action.  He also  inquired as to the amount left out                                                               
of the $50 million.  He further  asked if the funds left would go                                                               
through the regular budgetary process.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MS. FRASCA  responded that  about $18  million of  these one-time                                                               
federal  fiscal relief  dollars remain  and for  which there  has                                                               
been  no   proposal.    Furthermore,   there  hasn't   even  been                                                               
discussion regarding  what will be  proposed.  If there  is money                                                               
remaining during  session, then it  would go through  the regular                                                               
budget  process.    Otherwise,  there may  be  some  requests  in                                                               
December.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 0820                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS.  FRASCA turned  to  RPL  20-4-0045, which  is  a request  for                                                               
regular federal funds  in the amount of $703,500  for the Serious                                                               
and  Violent Offender  Reentry program  under  the Department  of                                                               
Corrections.  This  program is primarily for  Southeast and Yukon                                                               
regions  of the  state.    The emphasis  of  the  program is  the                                                               
reentry of  the prisoner  [back in  to society],  specifically in                                                               
rural communities.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SAMUELS announced  that RPL 20-4-0045 would  be pulled from                                                               
the  consent agenda  because  it's no  longer  going through  the                                                               
Department of  Administration but rather through  the Division of                                                               
Probation and Parole, Department of Corrections.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MS. FRASCA continued with RPL  20-4-0046, which is also a request                                                               
for  the Department  of  Corrections.   This  RPL  is a  $125,000                                                               
request  for a  federal grant  for sex  offender risk  management                                                               
programs that  are pilot programs  for offenders  once discharged                                                               
into  community  probation or  supervision.    The pilot  program                                                               
would be in Bethel and  surrounding villages.  This funding would                                                               
provide additional staff and support in the Bethel area.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SAMUELS asked  if one could assume that use  of these funds                                                               
will illustrate whether or not the program works.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MS. FRASCA  agreed that such  an assumption  could be made.   She                                                               
then  turned  to RPL  25-4-6715,  which  is  a request  for  $6.5                                                               
million for the Department of  Transportation & Public Facilities                                                               
for  the Ted  Stevens Anchorage  International Airport.   Funding                                                               
from the  Federal Aviation Administration (FAA)  was received for                                                               
a  warm  storage facility.    This  project had  previously  been                                                               
approved  when  the  airport  was   going  to  use  airport  bond                                                               
proceeds,  but instead  these federal  funds have  been received.                                                               
These federal funds  aren't part of the  [one-time federal fiscal                                                               
relief funds] that the state received.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 0856                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
KIP  KNUDSON,  Deputy Commissioner  of  Aviation,  Office of  the                                                               
Commissioner, Department  of Transportation &  Public Facilities,                                                               
informed the committee that the  total bond savings should amount                                                               
to  about $7.7  million.   He  specified that  these are  non-AMT                                                               
bonds,  which will  be  used toward  public  construction.   With                                                               
regard  to  whether  these  funds  could  be  redirected  to  the                                                               
terminal  project,  Mr.  Knudson  said that  is  unlikely.    Mr.                                                               
Knudson related  that it's the  desire of the  signatory airlines                                                               
and the international airport system  that these funds be used to                                                               
lower a future  non-AMT bond.  There is a  non-AMT bond scheduled                                                               
for  approximately $58  million in  2007.   In response  to Chair                                                               
Samuels, Mr.  Knudson confirmed that  the bond money  saved won't                                                               
be  spent  on  anything  that  doesn't  go  through  the  regular                                                               
process.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  HAWKER  inquired  as  to why  the  related  bonds                                                               
wouldn't be defeased.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR.   KNUDSON  said   that  defeasing   doesn't  appeal   to  the                                                               
commissioner  of  the  Department   of  Transportation  &  Public                                                               
Facilities because  it isn't  perceived as a  good action  in the                                                               
bond  market and  there  are related  fees.   Furthermore,  since                                                               
there will  be regular  issue of  bonds in  the future,  it seems                                                               
simpler to reduce a future [bond].                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SAMUELS related  his understanding that the  bond money can                                                               
be  spent  on  whatever,  the [department]  doesn't  have  to  go                                                               
through on a future bond issue.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. KNUDSON  said that the cash  would be in a  bank account, but                                                               
the   [department]  wouldn't   have   the   authority  from   the                                                               
legislature to spend it.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOULE  surmised then  that in  order to  spend it,                                                               
the department would have to approach the legislature.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR.  KNUDSON replied  yes.   Mr. Knudson  informed the  committee                                                               
that as part  of a deal with the signatory  airlines, $58 million                                                               
worth  of  planned  projects  was  deferred  and  the  department                                                               
doesn't  have legislative  authority for  those projects  at this                                                               
time.   Therefore, when  those bonds  are needed,  the department                                                               
will approach  the legislature in  order to obtain  the authority                                                               
to spend those bonds and increase the bonding cap.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HAWKER  moved to  pull RPL 04-4-0127  for purposes                                                               
of an amendment and RPL 20-4-0045 for purposes of clarification.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  SAMUELS asked  if there  was  objection to  all the  RPLs,                                                               
except the above two that were pulled.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 0905                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR BEN STEVENS objected for  discussion purposes.  He turned                                                               
to the  RPLs with the  funding from the temporary  federal fiscal                                                               
relief  and expressed  concern that  of the  seven requests,  six                                                               
seem to  be discretionary spending.   These funds are  being used                                                               
under a  different mechanism than  used for [the  RPLs] presented                                                               
at the last meeting.  Senator  Ben Stevens commented that for the                                                               
next $18  million [in federal  fiscal relief funds] he  wanted to                                                               
know that it  won't be a lot of discretionary  projects that this                                                               
committee  is directed  to  approve  without legislative  action.                                                               
Senator Ben Stevens  expressed his discomfort with  this and said                                                               
he would  be very uncomfortable  doing it with the  remaining $18                                                               
million [in federal fiscal relief funds].                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS.  FRASCA  pointed out  that  three  of  the [RPLs  that  would                                                               
receive federal  fiscal relief funds] were  capital projects that                                                               
were approved by the legislature.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR BEN STEVENS acknowledged  that and highlighted that those                                                               
were vetoed in  conjunction with a mass of  capital projects that                                                               
were vetoed.  He noted  that he classifies those capital projects                                                               
as discretionary projects.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  SAMUELS  said  he  wanted to  echo  Senator  Ben  Stevens'                                                               
concerns.   He added  that this  is unusual  for the  governor to                                                               
receive  [unrestricted]   funds  when  the  legislature   is  the                                                               
appropriating body.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR HOFFMAN noted that he has similar concerns.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR BEN STEVENS removed his objection.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS. FRASCA  pointed out  that with  RPL 04-4-0127,  the committee                                                               
could approve  it as  it is  and approve the  RPL to  address the                                                               
other $50,000 for the Department of Natural Resources.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
DAVID  TEAL,  Legislative  Fiscal  Analyst,  Legislative  Finance                                                               
Division, explained  that RPL 04-4-0127  can't simply  be amended                                                               
because it is going to a  different department and is a different                                                               
appropriation.  Therefore, a separate RPL is necessary.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  SAMUELS, upon  hearing no  objection,  announced that  the                                                               
following  RPLs were  approved:    02-4-0022, [03]-4-0139,  04-4-                                                               
1026,  [05]-4-0685, 05-4-0703,  06-4-0161, 06-4-0166,  08-4-0076,                                                               
08-4-0078, 10-4-5035, 12-4-0114, 20-4-0046, and 25-4-6715.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HAWKER moved that the committee approve RPL 04-4-                                                                

0127 as standing because the amendment will be handled with a separate RPL. There being no objection, RPL 04-4-0127 was approved. REPRESENTATIVE HAWKER moved that the committee approve RPL 10-4- 5037. MS. FRASCA explained that RPL 10-4-5037 would add [$50,000] to the $200,000 going to the Natural Gas Development Authority. The $200,000 goes to the Department of Revenue to support its work plan and analysis of in-state benefits. The additional $50,000 will go to the Department of Natural Resources to support its participation in the aforementioned work plan and analysis. There being no objection, RPL 10-4-5037 was approved. CHAIR SAMUELS turned attention to RPL 20-4-0045 and clarified that the appropriation to the Department of Administration has been changed to the Division of Probation and Parole in the Department of Corrections. REPRESENTATIVE HAWKER moved that the committee approve RPL 20-4- 0045, as amended. There being no objection, RPL 20-4-0045 was approved. REPRESENTATIVE HAWKER made a motion to move to executive session for the purpose of discussing confidential audit reports under AS 24.20.301. There being no objection, the committee went into executive session. [Upon reconvening, the tape counter numbers begin at zero.] REPRESENTATIVE HAWKER made a motion to move the committee back into regular, open session. There being no objection, the committee was brought back into regular session. AUDIT REQUESTS REPRESENTATIVE HAWKER made a motion for the audit report on the Department of Community & Economic Development Board of Certified Real Estate Appraiser to be released to the public for response. There being no objection, it was so ordered. REPRESENTATIVE HAWKER made a motion for the preliminary audits be released to the appropriate agencies, which are the Commission on Aging, Department of Health and Social Services; Behavioral Health, Department of Health and Social Services; Board of Dispensing Opticians, Department of Community & Economic Development; Real Estate Commission, Department of Community & Economic Development; Guides and Transporters, Department of Community & Economic Development; Probation Officer Transfer Analysis, Department of Transportation & Public Facilities. There being no objection, it was so ordered. OTHER COMMITTEE BUSINESS CHAIR SAMUELS reminded the committee that at the previous meeting the committee gave the chair the authority to enter into a contract with the Alaska Department of Fish & Game and the Department of Natural Resources regarding navigable waters and RS 2477s. Chair Samuels informed the committee that one navigable waters case has been solved and there has been movement with federal legislation. The state has moved forward with the Black River case. TINA CUNNING, State-Federal Issues Program Manager, Office of the Commissioner, Alaska Department of Fish & Game (ADF&G), in response to Senator Hoffman, specified that the Black River [flows into] the Porcupine River. The (indisc.) and Black Rivers were the three originally filed. The committee took a brief at-ease. Number 0041 DENNIS DeWITT, Special Staff Assistant, Office of the Governor, informed the committee that he has been working on the proposal to convert the Palmer Pioneers' Home to a veterans' home. The report done by the McDowell Group specified three alternatives. One alternative was the construction of a facility, which was found to be outside [the state's] economic ability. Another alternative was the conversion of "Wings", which was found to be outside [the state's] managerial and financial ability. The third alternative was the conversion of an [existing] home. As a result of the study, the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) was invited to Alaska in order to review the feasibility of converting the Palmer Pioneers' Home. The VA was very excited about the potential of this conversion. The proposal before the committee would develop the information necessary for the final grant application allowing the conversion. Mr. DeWitt informed the committee that 25 percent of those in the home need not qualify as veterans. Furthermore, the state would have full flexibility with regard to the admission criteria for that 25 percent. The intent is to maintain the current admission criteria for pioneers' homes. MR. DeWITT noted that the discussion with the VA brought up the notion of transition as did the McDowell Group study, which suggested a three-year transition. He noted that the transition period was unexpected because the federal government had said they wouldn't suggest a time-limited transition but rather a transition based on the length of time those in the home are in the veterans' beds. Therefore, federal legal counsel is discussing whether federal legislation is required to accomplish the aforementioned. The transition issue will assure that no pioneer will be displaced and provides a much longer period in which to transition to a full veterans' home. He related the [administration's] belief that if a second request for proposals (RFP) moves toward the information for final application, it would be complete by about April 15th. If the aforementioned occurs, then hopefully by the fall of next year [the Palmer Pioneers' Home] can begin operation as a veterans' home. CHAIR SAMUELS mentioned that he met with VA representatives who said that the other options became less and less tenable when reviewing the details. The [McDowell Group] study didn't do justice to the actual costs and operational concerns [of the VA]. Therefore, the conversion of the Palmer Pioneers' Home was cause for excitement. Chair Samuels said that the process is at the point at which a motion is necessary to authorize the chair to put together a committee to work with the administration and the VA to develop an RFP in order to start the design phase of the project. REPRESENTATIVE JOULE inquired as to how many VA beds the 75 percent would equate. MR. DeWITT estimated that there would be 58 VA beds and 22 non- VA beds. CHAIR SAMUELS noted that there has been discussion that some residents in the pioneers' homes may be eligible for VA benefits and don't know it. Therefore, the administration and the VA will work with everyone to create the least disruption possible. Number 0135 SENATOR THERRIAULT recalled that when the original money for this was made available to the committee, some money was specifically held to take this second step. Therefore, with the results of the McDowell Group study and the discussions with the VA, it's appropriate to move forward. Senator Therriault mentioned that Senator Green had some concerns and questions about this. MR. DeWITT said that he and Senator Green had a long conversation and she felt positive about the approach being taken. He related that Senator Green had met with the Palmer Pioneers' Home administrator to share that she was fully supporting this. REPRESENTATIVE HAWKER turned attention to the October 10, 2003, letter from Joel Gilbertson, Commissioner, Department of Health and Social Services. He asked if this letter is accurate with regard to taking the next step. MR. DeWITT explained that per the request of the chair work was done to ascertain the work necessary to get the proposal ready to the 10 percent design stage, which is required before the VA's final determination. Mr. DeWitt said that [the administration] is very comfortable that this is a lean and doable project. REPRESENTATIVE HAWKER moved that the committee authorize Chair Samuels to solicit and award a contract for phase two of this study as outlined in the October 10, 2003, letter from Commissioner Gilbertson. REPRESENTATIVE KOHRING asked if the option of building an entirely new facility with federal funds was considered. MR. DeWITT acknowledged that could be an option and it was discussed with the VA. However, the cost would probably generate $10-$12 million in state costs plus the federal match. Therefore, in the current economic environment an expenditure of $10 million would be outside the state's ability. REPRESENTATIVE KOHRING asked if this conversion proposal actually takes existing beds and converts them to veterans' beds or is the facility also being expanded. MR. DeWITT answered that capital improvements would be made to the Palmer Pioneers' Home in order to bring it up to the level required to be acceptable as a veterans' home. REPRESENTATIVE KOHRING surmised then that this doesn't expand the number of beds, it merely converts existing pioneers' beds to veterans' beds. MR. DeWITT replied yes and highlighted that the upgrade will result in a facility that won't have deferred maintenance issues [and costs] for probably eight to ten years. Therefore, the state will have an upgraded facility with a useful life of at least 30 years. REPRESENTATIVE KOHRING related his understanding that veterans are already eligible to enter [the pioneers' homes] without special preference related to their veteran status. Representative Kohring expressed concern that this proposal would make it difficult for pioneers who are not veterans to gain access to this facility because there would be fewer beds available once the beds are filled by veterans. MR. DeWITT informed the committee that currently there are 22 empty [pioneers'] beds that are being filled. Currently, there is an active waiting list of 20 individuals. Mr. DeWitt specified that the intention is to fill those beds and obtain the lengthier transitional language. While Representative Kohring's concern might be an issue, it would be much later before such impacts would occur. This conversion proposal would allow [the state] to secure some federal reimbursement for those veterans' services that are already provided in order to provide better services over the long term. REPRESENTATIVE KOHRING returned to the issue of the difficulty in raising the funds to build a stand-alone veterans' home. He related his understanding that a stand-alone veterans' home would be funded through the federal government and with U.S. Senator Ted Stevens as the appropriations chair it seems there would be a good opportunity to secure federal dollars to do that. MR. DeWITT pointed out that a stand-alone veterans' home brings with it federal statute. The probability of a federal grant beyond the federal share prescribed in law would be fairly remote. Additionally, the operational costs supported by the VA simply don't cover the operational costs of veterans' facilities. Therefore, a stand-alone veterans' facility is a much larger investment than it might look initially. SENATOR BEN STEVENS related his understanding that the reason for a designated veterans' home is so that veterans [existing residents] can use their veterans' benefits to pay for a portion of their retirement home needs. MR. DeWITT agreed that a [designated veterans' home] would allow veterans to obtain benefits the veterans [in Alaska] currently can't obtain. SENATOR BEN STEVENS informed the committee that U.S. Admiral Principe has said he isn't in favor of building a stand-alone veterans' facility in Alaska. CHAIR SAMUELS interjected that under this conversion there is no net loss of beds. CHAIR SAMUELS, upon hearing no objection to the earlier motion authorizing him to solicit and award a contract for phase two of this study as outlined in the October 10, 2003, letter from Commissioner Gilbertson, he appointed himself, Senator Therriault, David Teal, Pat Davidson, and Henry Webb to develop the RFP. ADJOURNMENT There being no further business before the committee, the Joint Committee on Legislative Budget and Audit meeting was adjourned at 4:20 p.m.

Document Name Date/Time Subjects